video; un: iudex

[inexorablejudgment]

I have a question to pose... and do take your time in considering your response. It is of no worldly importance, but I feel such a question demands more than a cursory answer.

[Neuvillette's voice is calm and pleasant and his expression is placid. He's easily recognisable to those who know him, and to anyone who might have seen him at work in the Amberfall library]

What does the term 'Justice' mean to you?

[A beat.]

Not the word alone, but the concept itself. The land I hail from names itself the Nation of Justice, and I have been the one charged with carrying out the law of that nation for some time. I have always considered the application of the law to be absolute regardless of my own feelings, at least until... recent times, but events here have brought the uncertainty of such things to the forefront of my mind once again.

[He imagines that some people here will have some thoughts regarding the question he's posing.]

I understand that 'right' and 'wrong' cannot always be quantified so easily. I am curious about the opinions of other people here.

Comments

un: abnormalitylover, video

[abnormalizes]

...I don't think justice means anything to me. I mean, I kind of know what the word is supposed to mean? But I come from a place where murder happens all the time, and the government doesn't care or do anything about it. Sometimes it's outright legal.

Your home sounds nicer.

[inexorablejudgment]

It can be, if that is the metric by which it would be measured.

[Murder is definitely not legal in Fontaine, even if it was morally justified.]

Do you have thoughts on the conduct of your justice system, or do you find it agreeable by your own standards?

[abnormalizes]

Having lived in Ellipsa for almost two years now? My world fucking sucks. People actually getting punished for killing others is so much better.

[She can say that without hesitation, but-]

But also, I'm not in a position to change anything, and I'd almost certainly die if I tried. When you live in a place like that, it's easier to just accept that things are the way they are than think too much about how horrible it is.

[inexorablejudgment]

Hmm. I think I understand.

[One person being able to make a difference is a distant ideal to many, but in a place like that... it would put one in the line of fire as well.]

Do the way things are remain so because they are of benefit to those in power?

un:happyaround

[roundandaround]

Hm... I dunno. But I think it's something that makes sure everything ends up well for everybody! Like if someone steals someone else's stuff, then the just thing is to find it and give it back, and then find out why the first person stole it in the first place and do something to stop them stealing stuff again. Right?

[inexorablejudgment]

Mm... it is easy enough to dispense a judgement when the situation is a simple one.

[Someone did wrong, someone was wronged - no one tends to feel badly about such things.]

But imagine that someone steals something to feed their family. Is it still wrong? Should they still be stopped?

[roundandaround]

Uh... hmm... this is hard. I guess it's still bad, but it's also good. But if you helped them so they didn't have to steal, wouldn't that also be doing something to stop them doing it again?

[inexorablejudgment]

[No doubt a position that many people would take.]

But should they also have to atone for the crime that they committed?

un: galaxyranger - voice to text

[forkeroni]

Everyone's gonna have their own brand o' justice. Ain't no forkin' point in askin', if ya ask me.

[He sure does recognize Neuvillette from the few times he had been in the library, but never interacted given Boothill was still firmly in the children's level of reading, at the moment.]

[inexorablejudgment]

And yet I did, and you answered.

[So his opinion on it was strong enough to sting him into a response.]

Vigilantism has its own place, though rarely within organised law.

UN: MonkieMan || Video

[noodleboi]

That is a hard question, yeah. You're right about that. I thought about it a lot before I turned on the camera.

I think Justice is how you stop someone from doing bad or evil things. It isn't easy and it depends on what the person is doing. Stealing? You stop them and return what they took. If they are trying to destroy the world, you have to stop them. Sometimes that means you have to destroy them and that is justice. And you have to figure out what you can do, how far you can go, to stop someone from hurting others.

Because if you go too far for something, then it isn't justice. It's revenge.

[inexorablejudgment]

[Neuvillette thinks on this response for a minute.]

And where, do you think, should the line be drawn between the two?

[noodleboi]

I don't really know. I used to think the line was between if you were doing it for you or someone else. But that isn't right, I don't think. Not anymore.

I think...the line moves. And sometimes maybe it is both.

Video; UN: Dan.Heng

[skypiercing]

I think what a person defines as justice varies from person to person... and that everyone has their own guidelines they consider when defining it. What one person may view as justifiable may be considered horrific by another, based on their personal values. Even simple concepts such as 'stealing is wrong' can be complicated: Is a starving child wrong to steal to survive?

[A pause.]

And in terms of legal matters... while laws should by nature be impartial and can indeed be guidelines for how a society functions, they are made by people.

[He leans back and there's the tapping of a pen against paper, somewhere off screen.] ...People are fallible and prone to biases. Politics often get involved as well, which can further complicate matters. And sometimes laws can be used to punish people who are simply living their lives.

[He smiles wryly.]

I am admittedly biased myself, however.

[inexorablejudgment]

[A starving child stealing to survive would be one of many difficult situations placed in front of Neuvillette should it come to court. Morally, stealing so that one can live could not be considered wrong. And yet, by law, it would be considered a crime. A crime that the Iudex would have to pass judgment on.

A crime that, by law, he would have to convict for.

Thoughts like that make his mind stray. His eyes show that his attention has shifted somewhere else for a moment, though it snaps back when Dan Heng finishes speaking.]

I think few people could claim that they were not. [He looks at the other man with a muted fondness. There is a chain of similarity between he and Dan Heng that makes Neuvillette feel oddly at ease when speaking to him.] But you mean this more personally than most, I suspect.

[skypiercing]

There have been more than a few times the Astral Express crew has ended up wanted by the authorities of a planet we've visited. Not for anything truly terrible, mind you. Most of the time, it's misunderstandings or politics at play.

[Said with a long suffering sigh, though he gives Neuvilette a wry almost smile.] Well, and the occasional property damage.

[...What?]

But I suppose in my case it is more personal than most, even among the crew. Growing up in prison for a crime 'you' did not strictly commit can lead to many thoughts of the subject.

text; UN: Inaban

[dereban]

This is something that varies from person to person, honestly.

One's sense of justice may be different from how another person sees it. For me, it's a bit personal due to the circumstances that I've been dealt.

Handling justice means taking into account both the act and the circumstances around it. Of course, that doesn't mean that people can't be biased in one way or another to protect someone - especially those they care about.

[inexorablejudgment]

As the arbiter of justice in my home nation I must be trusted to act without bias.

This does often lead to rendering judgments that pain me greatly.

[dereban]

Valid, I suppose.

But leaving all of it to one person sounds like trouble. A single person cannot judge things fairly, even if they try. Nobody is perfect enough to do something like that; it's why trials utilize multiple people to keep things fair.

[judging_you]

Is it not the place that chooses what 'justice' is?

[inexorablejudgment]

Is it?

[An interesting perspective.]

Do elaborate.

[judging_you]

Those who govern a country choose the laws they would keep. The justice they wish to see served, some might say.

UN: frieda

[urtitan]

[Since this is a matter that constantly troubles Frieda, Neuvillette's post immediately piques her interest. So he's a man of the law... somehow, that doesn't come as a surprise. It doesn't seem like it's been an easy task for him (and how could it be?).

She keeps an eye on the post and takes in everybody's responses as they arrive. The thoughts of those whose usernames she recognises come as no surprise, and everyone else's contributions strike her as sensible as well. Eventually, she leaves a written comment rather than calling in, not trusting herself to stay calm on video, depending on how the conversation might go.]

In a perfect world where people cause each other no harm, justice wouldn't be needed. The need for it arises from the fact that we are so prone to injustice.

As some other people already said, the purpose of justice is to right wrongs and restore balance. However, some deeds are so atrocious that no counteract will suffice to restore justice, and in such cases, the only thing to be done is to atone.

[inexorablejudgment]

[It is not an easy task. It's something he takes pride in doing and a duty he has been entrusted with by the people of Fontaine, but it is not easy. If it ever became easy he would begin to question his judgement.]

I find myself in agreement... There are some acts for which there is nothing to be done to balance against the harm they have caused. The abstract of 'justice' is difficult to apply in such cases.

[urtitan]

[She's glad that he shares her point of view, though most compassionate people surely would. Yet, her people back home would never agree to pay the price for their ancestors' sins. She's met with resistance whenever the matter comes up between her and her countrymen here in Ellipsa. Wanting to hear his thoughts on their situation, but hesitant to divulge the whole ugliness of it all, she brings up a comparable circumstance.]

I remember a story discovered in the magical library: A man got corrupted by the Darkness and turned halfway into a monster. He asked to be killed, and it was done. But what if he'd wanted to live? He'd have been a danger to everyone around him. What would have been the right thing do to? Instead of murder, there could be banishment... but if all those turned into monsters were banished from civilisation, the Segments would become more and more dangerous, until nobody could leave the city anymore.